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Author Topic: NGD 2 New MP1s  (Read 6602 times)

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rnolan

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NGD 2 New MP1s
« on: Time Format »

Well following Richie_Bs evil bay tip off I now own 2 MP1s (it's been a long time since I had one, been using MP2s for many years now). I've now fired them both up and here's the results:
Both are V1 MP1s with top line/inst switch, one is 240 v the other 120v. I started last night with the 240v model (MP1 #1) which seller had advised had issues (and why he bought the other 120v unit).
So patch and power on, lots of transformer hum/vibration through the case, (no amp etc yet), just purely physical. Once you're playing you don't notice it...
It's v1.38. I loaded presets and 1 <> 1 midi mapping, midi channel to All. I could select patches with the front panel, although sometimes I'd select a number eg 4 and it would go 4, 5 and settle on 6.  Seems there are issues in the panel buttons. But when it settled it worked and I got decent sound out of it.  Ca rumba, I'd forgotten how nice MP1s sound, particularly the clean sounds, wow patch 6 sounds good with a pair of humbuckers (57 re-issues) on the middle position (Epiphone SG) > B200s > 2 Messa 1 x 12 cabs, TC MOne XL mixed in with lite delay/reverb at the desk. Anyway, great tones, god it squeals so nicely (this is a bit of a comparison to MP2 BTW).  Try midi pedal, no go, it wont respond to midi input  :facepalm: .
OK so lid off, let have a look...  It's had battery mod and some other little stuff.  Input jack is at a slight angle and jack is a bit loose when plugged in. I removed and re-seated a few chips, first the sharp PC900 (as I know it related to the midi in) then the Zialog Z84 CPU then did a bit of testing and finaly the EPROM (is dated 26.04.13 (which is a bit weird  :dunno: that's a very late date for 138).  Basically I'm fumbling around trying to make the midi work (it didn't and doesn't  :facepalm: ).  It would boot sometimes, other times not, one time it went through CC checks and gave error 1, 2 and 3, now it boots to 8, 8, 8, 138, ADA and just stays there displaying ADA... So no longer works at all.... Actually, thinking now about the EPROM date and a couple of other things that seem to have been modded (like there's a cap wired across a resistor near the battery but not in the other unit ??). I might try either my old 138 EPROM (if I can find it or maybe Mikes old one), maybe someone has done a special on it that has gone wrong, someone did the battery mod, what else did they do ?? Put in a custom EPROM ??
It has National 12AX7A-ECC83 Yugoslavian tubes in it.  They sounded quite nice while it was working.

Next night (tonight), try the 120v unit MP1 #2 using step down tranny.  Knobs are different, all blue on top ? patch power up again lots of transformer physical hum before amp on etc.
This one works fine, responds to midi pedal all good. Front panel working fine (so far) sounds great on cleans, dirty sounds not quite as good as MP1 #1.  So off with the lid, it has GT 12AX7s (probably why the dirty sounds aren't as good as the Nationals), they wont be in there long. No battery mod and battery down to 2.6 v (time for a change). Much tidier inside than MP1 #1 (brown cables around tubes better placed to not melt etc.) And no cap across a resistor near the battery as in MP1 #1. One of the transformer bolts has gone awal so the tranny is holding on by one bolt,  :facepalm: not good. EPROM is v2.01  :whoohoo!: . So very promising so far (and it's getting an MDRT soon  >:D ) and tomorrow I'll give it some Mullard long plates.

An overall comment though as I've not had a MP1 for a long time now, I have to say, the MP1 tone has more soul (well to me) than the MP2.  Am I just regressing (I used a MP1 for many years and thousands of gigs, but then did the same with MP2), is it an old sock  :dunno: . But it just seemed to me when I was playing through it that the tone had more soul..

So upshot, I think I'll steal the battery mod and maybe the 240v tranny from MP1 #1 and put them (and some nice new Mullards) in MP1 #2 and send MP1 #1 for a Belgium (3TM?) holiday.
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MarshallJMP

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Did you try to swap the eproms and see if the other one boots up?
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rnolan

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Hey MJMP, no not yet, I thought about that after I posted and, as (and as you say), I can just put the v2.01 EPROM from MP #2 into MP #1 and try.  The suns just coming up here so I might make it a later today experiment but (bloody) good idea  :thumb-up: . Although I have a seeking suspicion that Mp1 #1 wants to visit you for other reasons..., like breeding more tubes  >:D ...
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MarshallJMP

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Good you have 2 MP-1's ,this way you can do some swapping around.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Hey Richard,

    The blue capped knobs were what ADA was using before they got their standard black knobs. I'm not sure, but I believe they got the black ones in around 1988.
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rnolan

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Thanks Harley, good to know  :thumb-up:
Hey MJMP, is the 120 v and 240 v transformer a straight swap, nothing else to do except solder everything to the same spots ?
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MarshallJMP

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

Yes except for the wall voltage ( of course) and the wall plug.So R keep us updated, we'll figure out what is wrong with the other unit.

The black knobs with the white dot came first ,later they changed it to the black one with the blue stripe.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Yes except for the wall voltage ( of course) and the wall plug.So R keep us updated, we'll figure out what is wrong with the other unit.

The black knobs with the white dot came first ,later they changed it to the black one with the blue stripe.

   I'm referring to the earlier ones, at first they had black barrels with a blue cap and a black line on them. Some had a solid blue cap with a raised edge on the side of the barrel. Those were before the black with the white dot.
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MarshallJMP

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Mmm I really think the back ones with the white dots came first, I only saw them on the old models, then came the ones with the blue caps and then the black ones with the blue stripe.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

I thought I had gotten a MP-1 with replacement knobs way back in the early 90's, and when I called ADA for replacements, I was told they were the originals.
   The story I got was there was about 24 of the early models that had these knobs which they ordered from DOD in a bulk quantity, because the ones they were waiting on from their supplier were late getting to them, and they had orders to ship, so...

   Maybe they were bullshitting me :dunno:
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rnolan

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

The 240v unit has the black with white dot, the 120v unit has blue caps, all my other ADA stuff has black with blue stripe.

Hey MJMP thanks for that, Mike is looking for his old 240 v tranny and EPROM for me.  I can put the tranny in the 120v unit and it's then good to go until I put an MDRT in it.  And I can use the EPROM to start to trouble shoot the 240v model. I could pull the v2.01 out of the 120v unit for testing but I'd rather just swap the tranny (and tubes) and leave it alone as it's working fine ;-)

So the 240v unit boots as far as displaying ADA and hangs there, seems it's not loading the firmware (EPROM).  It seems a bit similar to the MB1 issues I had a while ago.  I wonder if it needs a new Z84 as well  :dunno: . Anyway first step is put in known working EPROM.  The up side is it did work (and sounded very nice) apart from midi and switching issues.  I'm sure (as you say) we'll get it working  :thumb-up: .  Then I can have 1 in the studio rig and 1 in the hybrid live rack, one rack to rule them all, one rack to find them (and in the darkness melt you ears LoL)
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MarshallJMP

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

Ah well it seems R can solve the knob problem, if you compare the serial nr which one is the oldest? the white dot or the blue cap?

So it did boot before, and then it started giving startup problem.So if I get it right it start and hangs at ADA but it doesn't do the reboot cycle correct?
Strange never had this problem. Now coiuld be power supply problem, strange things can happen with an unstable 5V.
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rnolan

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

MP1 #1 240v Black knobs with white dot SN 803570
MP1 #2 120v Blue Caps SN 811290

MP1 #1:
Powered it up, seemed to boot ok, settled on a patch but transformer has allot of "physical" hum (I hadn't cabled it up yet).  I could change patches with the front panel but it was a bit erratic, some buttons having to be pressed more than once and sometimes if you pressed a number (eg 4) it would go to 4 then run on to 5 then 6 and settle there at patch 6.  Some would just change normally.
I cabled it up and it worked fine sound wise.  Sounded very nice actually. I reloaded patches (store + bank + 1) and 1 <> 1 midi mapping (store + bank + 2) and set midi channel to ALL.
Plugged in midi pedal, but no response from MP1 to midi patch changes.
Took off the lid, pulled and re-installed PC900 chip next to midi in socket, no change in midi...
Took off bottom lid to check for mods etc.  It has battery mod done (measures 2.965v). Input jack is a bit loose inside but works although is at a slight angle.
removed Z84 and sprayed the socket and Z84 pins and re-installed.  Sometimes would boot (still no midi), sometimes nothing...
removed EPROM cleaned and re-installed, again sometimes it would boot (still no midi), sometimes nothing. One time it went through CC checks (promising I thought) displayed err 1, err2 and err3.
pulled and reset EPROM again, unit was off but still plugged in.  Put my finger underneath to steady the PCB while I pushed in the EPROM and took a big zap (house power breaker tripped) and cut my finger pulling it out  :facepalm: .
Now it starts up displaying 8, 8, 8, 138 then ADA and just hangs there (it had also done this from time to time during previous power cycles. So not loading the EPROM it seems ?

This is similar in some ways to the issues I had with one MB1 where the Z80 needed changing.  Although as you say could be unstable 5v  :dunno: . So far I've made worse not better  :facepalm:
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MarshallJMP

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Re: NGD 2 New MP1s
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

Did your breaker trip from holding the PCB???? There's only 5V there. Mmmm strange  :???:

It's accessing the eprom else it wouldn't start or display anything.

Still thinking it's the PSU. Why don't you swap the eproms and see if that does anything?
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