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Author Topic: Advice on hooking up several pre amps  (Read 3222 times)

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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #15 on: Time Format »

    Jeff,

   That's the same train of thought I had going when I tried to use the GCX for switching preamps, because each loop is true bypass also. I used the sends to feed each preamp. The problem is the way the relays in the GCX work. when they go to take a loop out of the signal path, the relays short to ground. This is where the hum was coming from. It's not an issue when using any of my ADA rack effects in the loops, or using the loop sends as a momentary switch in the effects to bypass them, just when I'm feeding the preamps with them. The GCX even has buffered guitar inputs.
   Currently, I'm using A/B/Y switches to switch to different preamps because I'm leaning more towards a 3-system guitar rig, but for my large rack, I'll probably use the Ground Control MIDI switch and bring in the preamps into a Rane SM-82 mixer that way. Program 128 in each preamp is a dead program, so everything is set to "0" in the preamps for that setting. The Aux Sends and Returns in the Rane has the dbx Overeasy noise gates which applies to all four preamps so I won't have to use the built in gates.
   The outputs of the mixer feeds the stereo effects chain, then goes to the power amp and speakers.

   I hope the looper box you have doesn't operate the same way as the GCX, or you may find yourself getting the same hum issue I was getting. I hear you loud and clear about the cables, the GCX is the same thing :lol:
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #16 on: Time Format »

I had the same problem with the rocktron patchmate. So I used a splitter to go to the MP-1 and MP-2 and used the outputs to go to the return of the loop.
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gibsonrich

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #17 on: Time Format »

I was hoping to re wire this loop pedal to act like a splitter.. use the send and no return... I hope I don't get the buzz problem that you guys are talking about. this is the used unit I just picked up for $50.. do you think its do able? thanks everyone        http://buzzelectronics.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=20_79&product_id=65
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #18 on: Time Format »

Jeff,

    I just looked at the unit in the link you sent. There is no technical info on how the looper works, but it doesn't look like anything MJMP and I are using.
    The GCX only works if it's connected to the Ground Control. I know that Voodoo Labs has a similar stand alone box like what you've got there, but I haven't looked into that at all.
    For $50, you didn't get hurt on the price. All I can see is that it is a passive circuit, that requires a 9V battery to power the LEDs. This is some newer switching technology though, so it may work like you need it. I bought my Ground Control/GCX units back in the mid 90's, and everything in that system is controlled via MIDI, and the Ground Control supplies phantom power to the GCX's, so I don't need to use the wall warts that come with the GCX. Since this looper doesn't have all that additional circuitry, it may work without the hum. I'm certainly very curious to hear how it goes when you get it all hooked up.

      Harley 8)
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #19 on: Time Format »

It might work without hum, but how are you going to connect the outputs if you don't use the return ?
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gibsonrich

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #20 on: Time Format »

I am going to TRY  and rewire it to be a splitter box
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #21 on: Time Format »

Maybe try to do it like I do? Use the return.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #22 on: Time Format »

It might work without hum, but how are you going to connect the outputs if you don't use the return ?

    I thought he was going to send the outputs to the mixer, and bring all of them into a 2 channel stereo chain to feed the effects and power amp.
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gibsonrich

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #23 on: Time Format »

Harley - yes that is what I want to do
Marshall - if I use the return ,if I choose to use more than one pre amp it would run in series - 1 pre amp sending a distorted signal to the next pre amp etc. I want to split the guitar signal via the loop box I bought. unless you are talking about another way to do this that I am not thinking of?
 thanks bro's
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gibsonrich

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #24 on: Time Format »

Marshall, what you are saying should work if I only used 1 pre amp at a time but if I wanted to run more then 1 preamp it wouldn't work. 1 preamp would feed into the next preamp. I am trying to have the option of blending more than 1 pre amp together. so say you want to jam and you want to use your mesa boogie studio pre one day, the marshall jmp-1 another day, various ada, carvin etc. I wouldn't have to move cables around. and also have the ability to blend as many together that I want. I have no idea if this will work but in theory, it should... but I am not sure
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #25 on: Time Format »

Ah ok, yes than my option doesn't work, thought you wanted to use one at a time.My bad,sorry  :facepalm:
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rnolan

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #26 on: Time Format »

What you want to do is easiest with a small desk as per my previous post.  You can combine as many preamps as you have inputs for, send them all to the same (or different depending on FX sends) FXs and blend/mix that in.  And if you go with a small desk with sub groups (like the euro rack) send it to 1 or 3 different stereo amp/cab combinations (if you want).  So all you have to do is feed all the preamps a split of the guitar input (this is where (and only where) you may want to use a spliter ?), and the rest is just straight forward (normal) mixing (mix all preamps and FXs  together in parallel).  You can turn each preamp patches on/off with midi (make some zero'd patches to work as off/bypass as desired), or use the mute buttons on the channels (depending on desk). Take mixer main outs to power amp 1/cabs, if you have subgroups use them to independently feed other power amp/cab combinations.  You can run all preamps mixed together or independently, whatever works for the sound you want.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Rawk777

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #27 on: Time Format »

I know it won't work to mix multiple preamps, but anyone tried a patchbay to switch between different preamps?
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rnolan

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #28 on: Time Format »

I set up a Behringer patch bay initially with my studio set up, in the end I haven't used it much as its just as easy to patch directly and use 2 less leads per patch option (so less signal degradation and/or things to go wrong). But then my studio setup is fairly small and minimal and everything is racked close together.  Also I can have a number of preamps plugged into the mixer inputs and turn them on/off (ch mute) and /or route them where I want (eg I have my B200s > 2 x Mesa P112 cabs fed by subgroups 3 & 4) so I can send any preamp (+ Fxs) to the cab set up or to the studio monitors just using normal routing on the mixer.
In my live (hybrid) rack I take 4 outputs from the MP-2 (2 x main, 2 x cab sim) and the MB-1 full range out into the desk (AM802), Aux 1 & 2 to Quadverb, Aux 3 to Midiverb4 (L mono in), and return the 2 Fx into 2 stereo channels.  Mixer > DCM200L > Mesa P112 cabs. I will also take the MB-1 DI out (switched pre-preamp) into a channel (so direct from the bass PUs) when I make a short female XLR to jack.  Once I get both MP-1s sorted out I'll include one in the studio rack (probably via the MP-2 loop returns to pick up the cab sims) and the other into the live hybrid rack.  In the live rack I'm mixing together the MP-2 main outs and cab sim outs as the P112s have a tweeter (though not flat like studio monitors) which seems to work well.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Rawk777

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Re: Advice on hooking up several pre amps
« Reply #29 on: Time Format »

I have a small phonic mixer (mm1002) that sits in a box since a few years which has 2 mic preamps and 4 stereo inputs with minimal settings (balance/level, aux). I could give it a try, but I tought it would add noise or color the sound more or than a patchbay. It will also look less clean than the patchbay in my studio.

I guess the inputs would be easier to manage than the outputs since I could use the front input on most of them, but how do you manage your inputs?
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