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Author Topic: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!  (Read 1957 times)

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Guitar_lamar

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Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« on: Time Format »

Hey everyone! I just got a ADA MP-1 (again). I missed that killer sound. However, I don't remember that bass being so mushy. I've tried multiple types of tubes and nothing really mattered. I pretty much have to lower the gain so much to clean up/tighten up the bass that it's not usable for rock tones. Is there a component gone bad? Something I can replace??  I have the Bass at 2, Mids at -2, treble at 6 and presence at 8. OD1 at 8, OD2 at 7, master at 5.5.
Tubes: JJ HG in V1 and Electro Harmonix in V2. Playing a ESP horizon with Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge.

Any help would be appreciated!

THANKS!
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Dante

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Try pulling that mid down more, like -10. It will probably allow you to turn up that bass a bit.

That said, it sounds like maybe your unit needs to see a doc ( :facepalm: )
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Guitar_lamar

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Thanks, I'll give that a shot.A trip to the Docs might be more money then just getting another.  :(
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rnolan

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

I seem to remember that all my MP1 patches (when I had one) had the mid pull down quite a bit, no less than -4 and typically -6.  What amp and speakers are you using ?  Also speaker box placement may help, If the box is on the floor the bass can couple with the floor and increase the bass (as will putting it in a corner).  Raising it off the floor will de-couple it which "may" help.  Tube wise, I put Boogie STRs in my MP1, they still sound great.  I'm not sure if I'd follow the JJ with an EH, or use an EH at all (kinda higher gain fed into a lower gain tube which doesn't seem like good gain structure).  When I embarked on tube research a while ago the EH tubes were not highly regarded by it's all very subjective.  I settled on the New Sensor Mullard re-issues and love them.  A member of the old board tried them in his MP1 and loved them also (and he tried quite a few different tubes).
Hope you get it sorted  :wave:
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herbyguitar

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

I had the same issue. I don't remember my ADA being so mushy. I retired it about 12 years ago. Got it out about a week ago. Did the battery mod. Plugged it in and WTF??? Even with the mids pulled out. It still sounds good but the dang thing sounds so loose now. It was never this bad before. What in the world would cause it to do this?
« Last Edit: Time Format by herbyguitar »
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rnolan

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hey herbyguitar, hard to say, depends what you mean by lose  :dunno: .  My initial thoughts are:
Tubes - they go off over time but with use, not just sitting there.  Anyway a new set of nice tight tubes never hurts and often sorts it out.
Caps - the electrolytic capacitors dry up over time (with or without use) so the MP1 noise mod is well worth doing and tends to "tighten" the unit up
MDRT - this replacement transformer (available from MJMP) really makes a difference.  It makes sense to do the noise mod and MDRT at the same time as, IIRC, the MDRT mod requires some cap changes on the tube board
Rear jack mod - this replaces the front and rear input jacks, the front jack gets the most wear over time and needs to be replaced from time to time.

My friend MikeB did these mods and the unit is now like new, but a bit better from the MDRT.  Tube wise, he's using a Boogie STR (so a JJ) in V1 and a Mullard short plate in V2 (or is it the other way around ?)
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rabidgerry

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

I thought the bass was always loose, hence why people use a boost of sorts in front like I do on my stock units?

I don't think I could use without a boost to play heavy metal.  Perhaps I could for some songs, but the boost tightens it up big time!

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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GT5 Amps:  Harley Benton GPA400 - Rocktron Velocity 300
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rnolan

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, I never noticed the bass being particularly loose when I used MP1, though I scooped the mids allot and they were always -ve, I never boosted them (IIRC you use and get good results with some mid boost, maybe this is compensating for the additional bass boost  :dunno: ), eq is all give and take.. and, in the end, whatever works.  And I wasn't playing much (if any) metal, more just hard rock.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

RN you're playing very different styles to myself so perhaps you didn't notice a loose low end, but it's something I noticed right away.  MP1 is probably acceptable for hard rock

The extra gain stage totally sorts this issue.  For me I'd call it more "flubby" bass.  And no amount of distortion fixes it.  You need the boost unless you have a 3tm on the MP1.  It adds that extra layer as I call it thickens it up to give more "chunk".  I'm not getting into boost discussion here as it's already discussed on other threads, but I am just saying that my way to tighten up the bass is to have an EQ or OD from my FX pedal on in front.

I never have the mids on my MP1 down anywhere near as low (aren't we anti scooped mids on this board???  :lol:)

Also the volume drop is crazy doing that.  I might try it for a laugh but surely it's thin as f*ck scooping the mids?

Hey RG, I never noticed the bass being particularly loose when I used MP1, though I scooped the mids allot and they were always -ve, I never boosted them (IIRC you use and get good results with some mid boost, maybe this is compensating for the additional bass boost  :dunno: ), eq is all give and take.. and, in the end, whatever works.  And I wasn't playing much (if any) metal, more just hard rock.
  No usually an OD from my Boss GT5 (it's analogue).  Obviously you need to set you patch accordingly.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GT5 Amps:  Harley Benton GPA400 - Rocktron Velocity 300
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

herbyguitar

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

I tried putting a tube screamer in front. I pulled down the gains to about 3 and ran the screamer @ around 75%. I also pulled down the EQs to zero except the mids which I ran @ -4. Ran a parametric in the effects loop set at +3db @ 80hz medium band. -3db @ 3.35khz wide band. +3db @ 4.25khz wide band.... seemed to get me close to where I want to be but still not tight enough for my taste. It's been years since I stopped using the MP1 and I don't recall why but this flubby bass problem may be the reason I retired it...
« Last Edit: Time Format by herbyguitar »
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rnolan

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, just looked up my old post where I found a bunch of my 1992 MP1 patches:
  #   Voice OD1  OD2   M   B  M   T  P   Ch D     R
103   DT    3.8   3.4   4.5  9  6   6 10      100  0.0
109   DT    8.5   8.0   8.0  4 -6   0   0      100  0.0
107   DT    3.8   6.5   6.5  9  2   2   4      100  0.0
102   DT    6.0   5.0   5.5  6  4  -2   8      100  0.0
Clean
100   CT    4.8   3.2   7.0  4 -8   6 12        10  1.7
101   CT    4.8   3.6   7.5  4 -8   6 12        10  1.7
Seems I mostly scooped for cleans back then, it's a long time ago.

Hey herbyguitar, maybe some new tubes will fix it ?  Do you know what tubes are in it and how old they are ?  Flubby bass can also be exacerbated by the power amp, a higher dampening factor pulls the cone up tighter and helps resists the back wash from cone movement giving much tighter bottom end.
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herbyguitar

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

I'm using a Mesa 2-fifty for power. Hardly any hours on it.
The tubes in the MP1 are about 25 years old but only about 10 years of playing. It sat in storage for about 15 years.
What tubes would get the tightest response?
Is it worth modding the MP1? Is there a mod that would tighten it up? I found this site:  http://www.marshalljmpmodshop.net/ada%20mp1%20modded%20tubeboards.htm
« Last Edit: Time Format by herbyguitar »
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Systematic Chaos

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

The 2:50 is tight as hell since it's biased really cold.

If you wanna retain the overall Mp-1 tonal character just go for the EQ part of the Mod3.666 (Step10 in the 3.666 mod instructions):
http://adadepot.com/mods/ADA_MP-1_MOD3.666_Hi-Res.pdf
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rnolan

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

Hey herbyguitar, 10 years playing on the tubes probably means time for new ones.  As for which tubes, it's very subjective.  Various members here have rolled quite a few options until they found the tubes that suit them and their playing style etc.  Have a good read through the posts in the tube section, lots of good info and opinions in that section. (start here: http://adadepot.com/index.php?board=40.0) (then here: http://adadepot.com/index.php?board=38.0)  Happy reading, may take you a while, tubes are a hot topic LoL (no pun intended).
Actually SC knows allot (and has posted much knowledge) re different MP1 tube choices.
So you found MJMPs website.  It's a good place to check out and MJMP is very good to deal with.  MJMP is our resident ADA tech guru  :bow:
Yes it's worth modding the MP1.  They are getting quite old so some people are just replacing parts (particularly electrolytic capacitors that have gone hard inside) to give the unit a new lease on life and keeping the tone stock.  Others prefer some of the mods for various reasons...more gain, particular tones etc.
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Muddy/Mushy bass - HELP!!
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

I would try some new tubes first. It's easy to do and can give you instant results.
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