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Author Topic: Seymour Duncan Invaders?  (Read 2901 times)

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Dante

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Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« on: Time Format »

Hey folks,

I have a guitar at home that's pretty thin and light. I think I put a SD JB in the bridge when I bought it (I'll find out when I get inside), and it's always sounded a bit thin and tinny for my tastes. I beef up the low EQ to compensate....but it always bugged me. I had no luck finding a wiring diagram when I first changed the pickups/switches/jacks....and feared I may have hooked it up wonky.

Well, some guy is selling an Invader online for cheap and it got me looking at that guitar again. Last night, after about 5 years of looking online...I FOUND THE DAMN WIRING DIAGRAM I NEEDED.

So, my question is, does anyone think this Invader might fatten up the sound of this thin guitar? I realize it's hard to know, because I may have just wired it up wrong in the first place

Your thoughts?

Iperfungus

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Which volume pot did you use there? 250K or 500K?

Remember: JB WANTS a 250K volume.

What's the guitar? Can you share the wiring diagram?

Invaders are not hot....they are a nuclear assault.
The are not the pickups I would choose to fatten my guitar's tone a little...they are metal monsters (and look ugly!).

If the volume is a 250K already and you don't like the tone, consider a Duncan Distortion if you want strong output or '59 (bridge) if you want vintage out.
Screamin' Demon and Custom 5 are right in the middle.
Pearly Gates is more midrange focused, so I assume it wouldn't fit your needings.

If the volume is a 500K, put a 250K there and you'll see...

« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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Dante

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Thanks man, I appreciate that  :thumb-up:

When I wired up this guitar, I had no idea what I was doing...I couldn't find the schematic, I found something close and tried my best. I have never been all that happy with how thin it sounds, and that could be because of how I routed the micro switches... I'm attaching a pic of the guitar and the schematic I re-drew for clarity.

I'll keep you posted when I receive the new switches I ordered from StewMac.com...I have a bunch of pots in my parts bin, no idea what's in there, but I have JBs in a few guitars...this is the only 'thin' one.

Iperfungus

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Nice guitar!!!
Ibanez does some very nice guitarworks.

The wiring is a classic Les Paul wiring with coil splits.
Can you post pictures of controls cavity? Just to see the actual wiring and connections on push-pull pots.

Is it possibile that the JB there has a shorted coil? This would mean that it could be working as a single coil....or splitted, in other words. Does it hum?
The red and white wires are for split, in Duncan pickups.

If you get a tester, connect a cable to the guitar, select bridge pickup and measure impedance on the other side of the cable (at jack), you should read about 16-17 kOhm, if the JB is in full HB mode.

What's the neck pickup? Duncan?

I still suggest a 250K volume for the JB.
I love that pickup, but on a Les Paul with 500K volume it was like a rusted Gillette razor passed over glass...
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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Dante

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Thanks, she's pretty blingy

The micro switches are 3-way On/On/On:

Humbucker
Single coil
Out of phase

That's the tricky part-those dang switches. Ibanez had a wiring diagram from 1978 (the guitar is a 2006), which wasn't exactly the same...but it got me close.

Neck pickup: If I remember correctly, I either kept the original Super58 in the neck...or I may have put a GuitarFetish Vintage 2 Alnico II (great cheaper alternative to the Seymour Duncan Jazz).

Iperfungus

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

But the wiring is correct now, according to the Ibanez diagram?

The on/on/on switches should connect HB coils in series/parallel or split...no out of phase there.

Original Super 58s are awesome pickups!
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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rnolan

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

Hey Dante, sounding thin would imply that its coils are either in parallel or split.  If you do a check like Max suggested to measure the impedance, full HB should be 16 - 17k ohms (as 2 x 8k ohm coils), in parallel it should read ~ 4k ohms and split should be one coil ~8k ohms.  I'm not a huge fan of the JB.  I put one in my SG when I first bought it.  It wasn't thin sounding but the epiphone PU I was replacing sounded better, it had more of an individual character.  I was mostly changing it out as it was a bit microphonic.  In the end I put in Gibson 57 re-issues, nice PUs but expensive, back then they were $300 AUD each, although I think they have got a bit cheaper these days  :dunno: .
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Kim

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Wow, Dante!  That's a pretty crazy amount of options in that schematic.  The amount of diddling around (the fun kind) and finding what sounds like what.....well, it almost looks like trying to crack a combination lock!   :lol:

A few years ago I opted to upgrade my wiring schematic for some more options (3-way switch, 1 push/pull vol pot to change neck humbucker to series/parallel hum) when I swapped out the EMG pups I had in my guitars for nearly 20 years for the Dimarzio ones I have now.  A while later, I rewired each guitar for slightly different options (3-way switch, 1 push/pull vol pot that splits both neck and bridge humbuckers) and that's where I'll stay now.  I like some options, but then I fiddle with them too much it seems. :lol:  In fact, if I should get another guitar it will just be a Superstrat with FR style with 1 humbucker and 1 standard volume.

One of my Jackson Kelly guitars came stock with Invader pups.  They were not bad at all, but before I started gigging with them I just changed them out for EMG pups anyway because (at that time) I liked the EMGs best so I never got to give them a fair chance.
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Dante

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Kim, you and I live in a very small world...My gold top has no extra switches, but i installed some push/pull pots to split each p/u individually. I find that I like the neck PU split with the bridge in full Humbucker. Sounds pretty sweet. That guitar has a JB, btw...but it's a lot thicker in the body.....and, you're right about all the dang combinations available on the cherry sunburst...I love the options, but I end up using about 4 total - haha

Richard; I'll measure the PU...but either way, I am rewiring that whole dang guitar now that I have the proper diagram

Max; I haven't wired it up yet...very soon though, new switches are on the way  :thumb-up: As for original Super58s, they're not bad at all. I kept a couple in the neck positions of guitars that came with them (I've had a few). I found the JB to have a bit more clarity with distorted/overdriven chords in the bridge, so I bought more of those. I highly recommend the GuitarFetish pickup for the neck though, it's half the price of a SD Jazz and sounds really nice.

As far as the Invader being a thermonuclear device among PUs, I'm okay with really hot PUs. I have a couple older Ibanez that have some really hot PUs. One set of Flying Fingers (Super 80s I believe), and one set of IBZ (DiMarzio/Ibanez creations) that look very much like EMGs...but are passive. They are epoxy'd into solid black (plastic?) covers....just like EMGs without batteries.

So, I'm not afraid of a hot PU, your idle threats don't scare me  :headbanger:  - for $50, I'll try it out. I can totally sell it for that later if I hate it
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Iperfungus

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

So, I'm not afraid of a hot PU, your idle threats don't scare me  :headbanger:  - for $50, I'll try it out. I can totally sell it for that later if I hate it

So...rewire that guitar and set the world on fire!!!  :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger:
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Dante

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

UPDATE: I received the new switches, pulled the guitar off the wall, opened her up and found that the Neck PU tri-sound switch is wired correctly. (no way)

The Bridge PU tri-sound switch is WAY off. haha  ;D. Looks like I wired them up the same, which is not correct. I didn't take the PUs out of the guitar, I'm just working from the back so far, but the wiring colors look like Seymour Duncans. I believe I have the Jazz/JB combination in this one, to match my gold top.

I'll be cleaning up all the guts later, and I'll post an update. I'm much better at soldering now, than I was when I did this guitar...it looks messy in there. In hindsight, I would have ordered some copper shielding for the cavity when I got the switches, but it's okay for now. It has that black, non-conducting paint inside.

If I decide to swap out the bridge PU later, I think I'll go for a Custom Custom - SH-11

Dante

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

I spent the better part of Christmas eve wiring this guitar. It took longer than I wanted because my solder iron was acting up (the tip was loose, took forever to heat up, didn't realize it right away).

Anyways...I got all the stuff connected, put the pots in there spots, plugged in...and..... nothing

I don't wanna talk about it, I just put it back on the wall....I'll deal with it later.

rabidgerry

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

Dimarzio Super Distortion is all I have to say on the matter  :lol:

I used to have this in the MIM  I got 26 different wiring options 

see attached I had a bridge ON and series an parallel options for in between positions and series parallel on the humbucker.  It was overkill but hell yeah!!
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Iperfungus

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

Dimarzio Super Distortion is all I have to say on the matter  :lol:

Great bridge humbucker!  :thumb-up:
 
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Seymour Duncan Invaders?
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

 Hey Dante,

   I had the same issue when I was re-wiring one of my MIK Fender guitars. All of those guitars are thin sounding from the factory, so that's a complete loss right off the bat. Not only did I have to replace the pickups, but the pots, the input jack, and the wiring as well. I remember when I first got it re-wired, I got nothing as well. As it turned out, I soldered the polarity wrong on the input jack.

   BTW, those guitars came stock with SD's. Pearly Gates in the bridge, RWRP JB in the neck. There are only two SD's I like at the moment, The Screamin' Demon, and the JB.

   This is the first time I'm hearing about a Humbucker that wants to see a 250K volume pot though! I'll have to look into the Charvel Jake E. Lee model and see what they used in there.

Harley 8)
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